Lịch sử Quân sự Việt Nam

Các bác cho ý kiến.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mang_Yang_Pass

Order of battle

French forces

The G.M.s (Groupement Mobile) were designed as self-sustaining motorized regimental task force unit modeled after the U.S. Army’s World War II combat commands. The G.M.s typically consisted of three infantry battalions with one artillery battalion, along with elements of light armor or tanks, engineer, signal and medical assets, totaling 3,000-3,500 soldiers. [1]

Units in the G.M.100 included:

- Korea Regiment, consisted of 1st and 2nd Korea Battalion formed from the elite veteran UN Battalion de Coreé who fought earlier gloriously in the Korean War at Chipyong-ni, Wonju and Arrowhead Ridge.

- The Battalion de Marche of the 43rd Colonial Infantry Regiment.

- 2nd Group of 10th Colonial Artillery Regiment.

- 3rd Squadron of 5th “Royal Poland” Armored Cavalry Regiment.


Viet Minh forces

The Viet Minh 96th Regiment included:

- 40th Battalion.

- 79th Battalion.

- Two support companies (mortars, recoilless guns and bomb-launchers). 

- A battalion of 120th Regiment (attached).


Ambushes

June 24: An Khe (Operation Églantine)

With the fall of Dien Bien Phu complete and no French reserves available to stem the tide of the imminent Vietminh offensive into the central plateau, the French high command gave the order for G.M. 100 to evacuate An Khe and move to Pleiku, some 80 kilometers away over Route Coloniale 19.

G.M.100 departed An Khe at 0300 hours on 24 June, 1954. The 43rd Colonial led the column, followed by the 2nd Korea and the 1st Korea. All battalions had dismounted and were providing a screen for the Groupe’s vehicles. Each of the infantry battalions in G.M 100 had one artillery battery task organized to them. Also present in G.M 100’s formation was 520th TDKQ (Tieu Doan Khinh Quan or Commando Battalion). [2]

The Battle of Mang Yang Pass began at 1420. The Viet Minh 96th Regiment deployed along kilometer marker 15 (“PK15”) started the ambush with fierce and exact fire of mortars, recoilless guns, bomb-launchers and machine guns, caused heavy losses to the surprised French troops. In the opening minutes, the G.M’s communication truck was destroyed and all three ranking officers were put out of action: Colonel Barrou, G.M 100's CO was wounded, while Lt Colonel Lajouanie and Major Hipolite – CO and XO of the Korea Regiment were killed.

The 520th TDKQ broke and ran at the outset of hostilities. Other units were set in chaos. They tried to reorganize and make several piecemeal counter-attacks but failed and had to withdraw into a perimeter defense. French troops suffered heavy casualties from Viet Minh’s fire and infantry attacks.

At 1715, 1st and 2nd Korea battalions' COs received the order from French High Command to abandon vehicles and brake through to PK22 on foot to link up with G.M.42 and other French forces here. Both decided that trekking more than 10 kilometers through thick jungle and carrying the seriously wounded under enemy fire would create more casualties. They made the decision to leave the wounded on the road, along with all remaining medical supplies and any medical personnel volunteers willing to stay with them.

At 1900, the remaining soldiers of G.M. 100 broke out of the trap, splitted into platoon-sized groups under the command of an officer of senior NCO, to make the trek to PK 22 and reached it on June 25. [3]

June 28: Dak Ya-Ayun, Plei Bon

The remmants of G.M 100, now with G.M 42 and the 1st Airborne Group had to brave 55 kilometers more of enemy road and was ambushed on June 28 at Dak Ya-Ayun by the Viet Minh 108th Regiment. The survivors finally reached Pleiku the following day.

In the Battle of Mang Yang Pass, G.M 100 lost 85 percent of vehicles, 100 percent of artillery, 68 percent of signal equipment and 50 percent of weapons were captured by Viet Minh. The Headquarters Company had only 84 men left out of an original 222. The 43rd Colonial, the 1st and the 2nd Korea Battalion which numbered about 834 men each, was now mustered at roll call with 452, 497, and 345 men respectively. The 2nd Group of the 10th Colonial Artillery, reduced to fighting as infantry after the loss of all of their guns, had shrunk from 475 men to 215 men during the fighting. Colonel Barrou and several men were taken as prisoners of war. [4]

The Viet Minh 96th Regiment suffered more than 100 KIAs.

July 17: Chu Dreh (Operation Myosotis)

The ordeal for GM 100 was not over. The 1st Korea Battalion was ordered to take part in "Operation Forget-Me-Not" (Myosotis) to open Route Coloniale 14 between Pleiku and Ban Me Thuot. On July 17, the 450-man unit, which also mustered 47 vehicles including a few tanks, was ambushed again at Chu Dreh Pass by the Viet Minh 108th Regiment. The survivors, who entered Ban Me Thuot the following day, now numbered only 107 men, 53 of whom were wounded. The 1st Korea Battalion had ceased to exist.


References (Bổ sung thêm)

- Captain Kirk A. Luedeke, "Death on the Highway: The Destruction of Groupement Mobile 100". Armor Magazine, January-February 2001, pp. 22-29.

- Trung đoàn 96 và chiến thắng An Khê - Đắc Pơ (sẽ bổ sung thông tin cụ thể sau).

Mấy đọan chép từ trong bài của Luedeke thì chắc phải ghi rõ là trích trực tiếp.

French (Viet Minh) forces.

Cái 100 KIAs kia cần ghi rõ nguồn.

Bác có thể tìm thêm thông tin về vũ khí trang bị của hai bên không?

Ok, đã đánh số những chỗ chép từ Luedeke, bác xem được chưa.

Tổn thất của phía ta chỉ thấy mỗi bài báo này nói đến: http://www.baobinhdinh.com.vn/562/2004/5/10363/

Vũ khí trang bị cũng chỉ đến cối với ĐKZ thôi bác ạ, không có gì đặc biệt.

Tôi nghĩ thế là được rồi.


Báo Bình Định thì dù sao cũng là báo. Trích được ;)


Bọn Tây mô tả trận phục kích mở đầu bằng một đợt tấn công bằng hỏa lực rất ghê răng, nên nếu có được số liệu thì hay. Chẳng hạn có thể giải thích thêm về cái bomb-launcher? Nhưng không có chắc cũng không phải là thiếu sót gì lớn.

Bản hoàn chỉnh.

- Sửa lại OOB, quân của e120 không tham gia trực tiếp nên bỏ ra khỏi list.

- Bỏ bài của Luedeke khỏi mục References, vì thực ra tay này cũng chỉ trích lại từ Fall.

- Cái nguồn của báo Bình Định có lẽ nên đặt link trực tiếp vào bài.

Bác altus xem thế nào nhé.


Order of battle

French forces

The G.M.s (Groupement Mobile) were designed as self-sustaining motorized regimental task force unit modeled after the U.S. Army’s World War II combat commands. The G.M.s typically consisted of three infantry battalions with one artillery battalion, along with elements of light armor or tanks, engineer, signal and medical assets, totaling 3,000-3,500 soldiers. [1]

Units in the G.M.100 included:

- Korea Regiment, consisted of 1st and 2nd Korea Battalion formed from the elite veteran UN Battalion de Coreé who fought earlier gloriously in the Korean War at Chipyong-ni, Wonju and Arrowhead Ridge.

- The Battalion de Marche of the 43rd Colonial Infantry Regiment.

- 2nd Group of 10th Colonial Artillery Regiment.

- 3rd Squadron of 5th “Royal Poland” Armored Cavalry Regiment.


Viet Minh forces

The Viet Minh 96th Regiment included:

- 40th Battalion (3 infantry companies).

- 79th Battalion (2 infantry companies).

- Two support companies (mortars, recoilless guns and bomb-launchers). 


Ambushes

June 24: An Khe (Operation Églantine)

With the fall of Dien Bien Phu complete and no French reserves available to stem the tide of the imminent Vietminh offensive into the central plateau, the French high command gave the order for G.M. 100 to evacuate An Khe and move to Pleiku, some 80 kilometers away over Route Coloniale 19.

G.M.100 departed An Khe at 0300 hours on 24 June, 1954. The 43rd Colonial led the column, followed by the 2nd Korea and the 1st Korea. All battalions had dismounted and were providing a screen for the Groupe’s vehicles. Each of the infantry battalions in G.M 100 had one artillery battery task organized to them. Also present in G.M 100’s formation was 520th TDKQ (Tieu Doan Khinh Quan or Commando Battalion). [2]

The Battle of Mang Yang Pass began at 1420. The Viet Minh 96th Regiment deployed along kilometer marker 15 (“PK15”) started the ambush with fierce and exact fire of mortars, recoilless guns, bomb-launchers and machine guns, caused heavy losses to the surprised French troops. In the opening minutes, the G.M’s communication truck was destroyed and all three ranking officers were put out of action: Colonel Barrou, G.M 100's CO was wounded, while Lt Colonel Lajouanie and Major Hipolite – CO and XO of the Korea Regiment were killed.

The 520th TDKQ broke and ran at the outset of hostilities. Other units were set in chaos. They tried to reorganize and make several piecemeal counter-attacks but failed and had to withdraw into a perimeter defense. French troops suffered heavy casualties from Viet Minh’s fire and infantry attacks.

At 1715, 1st and 2nd Korea battalions' COs received the order from French High Command to abandon vehicles and brake through to PK22 on foot to link up with G.M.42 and other French forces here. Both decided that trekking more than 10 kilometers through thick jungle and carrying the seriously wounded under enemy fire would create more casualties. They made the decision to leave the wounded on the road, along with all remaining medical supplies and any medical personnel volunteers willing to stay with them.

At 1900, the remaining soldiers of G.M. 100 broke out of the trap, splitted into platoon-sized groups under the command of an officer of senior NCO, to make the trek to PK 22 and reached it on June 25. [3]

June 28: Dak Ya-Ayun, Plei Bon

The remmants of G.M 100, now with G.M 42 and the 1st Airborne Group had to brave 55 kilometers more of enemy road and was ambushed on June 28 and 29 at Dak Ya-Ayun by the Viet Minh 108th Regiment. The survivors finally reached Pleiku the following day.

In 5 days of fighting, G.M 100 lost 85 percent of vehicles, 100 percent of artillery, 68 percent of signal equipment and 50 percent of weapons. The Headquarters Company had only 84 men left out of an original 222. The 43rd Colonial, the 1st and the 2nd Korea Battalion which numbered about 834 men each, was now mustered at roll call with 452, 497, and 345 men respectively. The 2nd Group of the 10th Colonial Artillery, reduced to fighting as infantry after the loss of all of their guns, had shrunk from 475 men to 215 men during the fighting. Colonel Barrou and several men were taken as prisoners of war. [4]

The Viet Minh 96th Regiment suffered more than 100 KIAs. [5]

July 17: Chu Dreh (Operation Myosotis)

The ordeal for GM 100 was not over. The 1st Korea Battalion was ordered to take part in "Operation Forget-Me-Not" (Myosotis) to open Route Coloniale 14 between Pleiku and Ban Me Thuot. On July 17, the 450-man unit, which also mustered 47 vehicles including a few tanks, was ambushed again at Chu Dreh Pass by the Viet Minh 108th Regiment. The survivors, who entered Ban Me Thuot the following day, now numbered only 107 men, 53 of whom were wounded. The 1st Korea Battalion had ceased to exist.


Sources

1. Captain Kirk A. Luedeke, "Death on the Highway: The Destruction of Groupement Mobile 100". Armor Magazine, January-February 2001, pp. 22-29.

2. Kirk A. Luedeke.

3. Kirk A. Luedeke.

4. Kirk A. Luedeke

5. There were another Dien Bien Phu in 5th Military Region, Binh Dinh Newspaper (Có một Điện Biên Phủ ở Liên khu 5, Báo Bình Định)


References (Bổ sung thêm)

From Dien Bien Phu to Northern Tay Nguyen - The 96th Regiment and the battle which destroyed the French Groupement Mobile 100, People's Army Publishing House, 1995 (Từ Điện Biên Phủ đến Bắc Tây Nguyên. Trung đoàn 96 - trận tiêu diệt binh đoàn cơ động 100 của Pháp, Quân đội Nhân dân, 1995). 

Thế cuối cùng quân của e120 có vai trò gì nhỉ? Muốn xóa cái thông tin cũ đi thì phải có cơ sở.
Hai đại đội tăng cường kia là biên chế ở đâu?

Có link nào đến mấy cái bomb launchers không? À mà sách mình cũng gọi là phóng (bắn) bom hay là gì?

Chiangshan có con số ước lượng quân mình trực tiếp tham chiến tổng cộng có bao nhiêu không? Để so sánh với tụi Tây.

Sách của Fall là quyển nào, "Street Without Joy" à?

Nhân tiện bài này có khi làm luôn bio cho bác Nguyễn Minh Châu nhỉ. :)

Đại để là có 1c (giờ xem lại thì thấy bảo là 1c chứ không phải 1d) của 120 được phối thuộc cho 96. C này đánh trên hướng khác, chặn viện nghi binh gì đấy, tóm lại là không bắn phát nào vào bọn GM100.

2 đại đội đấy là hoả lực trực thuộc 96.

Sách mình gọi là súng phóng bom, chịu không có thông tin gì thêm  :-\

Quân số 5c bộ binh + 2c hoả lực + linh tinh khác, có lẽ khoảng 1000-1500 nhỉ.

Đúng zồi, Street Without Joy ;D

Chắc là cái này?

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=41.msg4098#msg4098 (http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=41.msg4098#msg4098)

hay là cái này?

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=41.msg16848#msg16848 (http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=41.msg16848#msg16848)

Chịu ;D

Chắc là cái này?

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=41.msg4098#msg4098 (http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=41.msg4098#msg4098)
---------------------------------------------------
 Cái ghi chú dưới bức ảnh này chính xác luôn đấy, ảnh tớ chụp lại bằng di động trong một cuốn sách

Thế thì có khi nhờ bác bỏ cái lô gô chìm đi rồi ta up luôn lên wiki, lấy cớ là "ảnh lịch sử" và "chất lượng vừa phải"  ;)

Hì, nhất trí! Để tớ tìm lại ảnh gốc nhé! ;D

Hình như cũng cái ảnh này, ở 1 cuốn khác lại được chú thích là SKZ ;D

Hì, cứ post ảnh lên này! ;D

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i152/bodoi_bucket/DSC00078.jpg)

Có lẽ post được rồi nhỉ ;D

OK, về cơ bản là xong. Còn cái ảnh sẽ post sau.

Ảnh cũng post rồi. Để xem thế nào. ;)

Từ từ đã  ;D
T7+CN này tớ rảnh, có 1 bài hồi ký tương đối chi tiết về trận này, đánh máy xong đưa lên đây để các bác xem có thêm thông tin gì không?

Hay quá. Bác rongxanh cứ post lên đi, rồi có gì ta bổ sung lên wiki tiếp.

Nào nào, bác giun đừng làm cái chủ đề của em dưới box KCCP thất nghiệp thế chứ ;D Các bác xem bài bác giun ở đây nhé: http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=1781.20 (http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?topic=1781.20)

Hôm nay đã kiểm tra tài liệu về quân giới trong KCCP, xác nhận tấm ảnh có post ở trên là súng phóng bom.

Bổ sung thêm OOB từ tài liệu của bác rongxanh

d40: c3, c68 và 01 c dự bị(? phiên hiệu?), d trưởng Huỳnh Hữu Anh.
d79: c223, c224, d trưởng Đỗ Hữu Đào.

Hai c hỏa lực của e96 có phiên hiệu không nhỉ?

Cối có 60, 81, 82. ĐKZ không rõ loại gì.

Pháp KIA 500, WIA 600, CIA 800. 375 xe bị cháy và hư hỏng. Ta thu 229 xe còn nguyên hoặc hư hỏng ít, 18 pháo 105 (không rõ còn dùng được không).

Nhiều khi chi tiết quá lại dễ bị soi, vặn vẹo bác altus ạ ;D

Biết thế nhưng mà nếu dữ liệu của mình có cơ sở đầy đủ thì lo gì.  ;D

Chú nào vừa sửa khống số liệu của ta này ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mang_Yang_Pass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mang_Yang_Pass)

Vừa tái tạo nguyên trạng lại rồi.  ;)